Guest
9 years ago
Edited
http://www.doitgarden.ch/de/garten/pflanzenpflege/pflanzenschutzmittel/spray-gegen-schaedlinge--500-ml/pp.658408200000
Supplementary information
Declarable substances
Guest
9 years ago
Quote from Daniel
>>> We are looking at how we can make these passages even clearer and make it even clearer what we were referring to at the time of making the pledge. <<<
What does this mean for the products offered in future?
Should the promise "ONLY products that do NOT endanger bees" not apply forever? That would not be sustainable.
Daniel, why does the organic plant protection product with BT (Bacillus Thuringiensis) cost so much at Migros? More expensive than at Landi, I think it's cheeky for 18 grams of just one strain. At Hornbach Germany I can get 25 grams with two other strains for just under €13. Of course I use both products and other BT strains for other plants. This helps me to avoid damage in case the moth or other pests build up resistance.
BT-based insecticides are systemic but selective for certain pests. With regular application, some plants can eventually produce BT themselves and protect themselves against certain insects without harming pollinators or other animals. This is the most sustainable method that will one day make broad-spectrum chemistry superfluous. Migros likes to present itself as sustainable, so why doesn't it promote this product at an unbeatably low price? People who have no idea about ingredients, plants and gardening buy the cheapest first. So it would be good if Migros could help them choose the right product. Chemical poisons are not and never have been the right thing.
9 years ago
Regarding communication, I would be happy if the Community Manager would not use so many standard answers. I compared a reply from the M-Infoline with a reply from the Community Manager and saw that practically exactly the same thing was written:
I quote:
M-Infoline reply dated 25.04.2016
Dear Mr. ....
We are pleased that you are interested in our environment and the well-being of bees. We are happy to respond to your request as follows:
Migros is committed to environmentally conscious gardening and is helping to ensure that fewer chemicals are used in hobby gardening. As part of Generation M, Migros is therefore promising to double the proportion of organic fertilizers, soils and pesticides by 2020 and is focusing on this area accordingly.
Migros offers a wide range of organic aids under the "Migros Bio Garden" label. Today, it already has 47 products in its range, ranging from organic fertilizers and soils to plant protection products. All products comply with strict guidelines that Migros has developed together with the Research Institute of Organic Agriculture (FiBL) and which go far beyond the legal requirements. For example, no chemically synthesized additives may be used, transport routes must be as short as possible and the ingredients should come from Switzerland wherever possible.
From today's perspective, however, we do not yet see ourselves phasing out synthetic chemical pesticides completely. We want to give our customers a choice, because not all application options are available organically. However, we offer a natural organic alternative wherever possible. Our customers should be able to decide which product they prefer.
Nevertheless, Migros regularly reviews its product range and takes action if findings indicate that certain active ingredients can harm people and the environment.
In 2014, Migros was the first retailer in Switzerland to react and promised Generation M that it would only offer insecticides and pesticides that do not contain any of the active ingredients criticized by Greenpeace in the Bye Bye Bees report and do not endanger bees.
In 2015, the active ingredient glyphosate came under fire. We therefore switched our own-brand herbicides under the Mioplant brand to the active ingredient pelargonic acid a year earlier. This active ingredient is biodegradable and therefore gentler on the environment and people. In 2015, we also removed the last two third-party brand products from our range and replaced them with existing products.
We hope you understand our arguments and would be delighted to continue welcoming you to Migros.
Your opinion is important to us! Give us a maximum of 3 minutes of your time and help us to improve our service quality for you. Thank you very much for your help!
Kind regards
....
Customer advisor M-Infoline
Federation of Migros Cooperatives
Economic Policy Directorate
M-Infoline
Limmatstrasse 152
P.O. Box 1766
CH-8031 Zurich
M-Infoline: 0800 84 0848
Do you have any questions for Migros? You can find the most frequently asked questions and answers as well as further information on our homepage: www.migros.ch or http://www.migros.ch/de/services/kundendienst-kontakt/faq.html
Answer in Migipedia 18.04.2016
Community Manager
https://community.migros.ch/m/Forum-Migipedia/Bienenschutz-oder-doch-nicht/m-p/515656#M23246
Subject: Migros Genereration M: Empty promise in terms of bee protection...
on 18.04.2016 16:31
Hello everyone
Please excuse me, my clarifications took a little longer because those responsible and I were not always available at the same time.
Migros is committed to environmentally conscious gardening and is helping to ensure that fewer chemicals are used in hobby gardening. As part of Generation M, Migros is therefore promising to double the proportion of organic fertilizers, soils and pesticides by 2020 and is focusing on this area accordingly.
Migros offers a wide range of organic aids under the "Migros Bio Garden" label. Today, it already has 47 products in its range, ranging from organic fertilizers and soils to plant protection products. All products comply with strict guidelines developed by Migros together with the Research Institute of Organic Agriculture (FiBL), which go far beyond the legal requirements. For example, no chemically synthesized additives may be used, transport routes must be as short as possible and the ingredients should come from Switzerland wherever possible.
From today's perspective, however, we do not yet see ourselves phasing out synthetic chemical pesticides completely. We want to give our customers a choice, because not all application options are available organically. However, wherever possible, we offer an organic/natural alternative so that the customer can decide.
Nevertheless, Migros regularly reviews its product range and takes action if findings indicate that certain active ingredients may be harmful to people and the environment.
In 2014, Migros was the first retailer in Switzerland to react and promised Generation M that it would only offer insecticides and pesticides that do not contain any of the active ingredients criticized by Greenpeace in the Bye Bye Bees report and do not endanger bees.
In 2015, the active ingredient glyphosate came under fire. We therefore switched our own-brand herbicides under the Mioplant brand to the active ingredient pelargonic acid a year earlier. This active ingredient is biodegradable and therefore gentler on the environment and people. In 2015, we also removed the last two third-party brand products from our range and replaced them with existing products.
As you can see, we are constantly working on improvements. However, this takes time.
Kind regards
Tanja
Guest
9 years ago
Edited
Today I was in a Migros and asked the store manager. I drew his deputy's attention to the fact that they had some products in their range that had lost their license and insisted that they be removed from the range immediately. She couldn't do that because it would have to come from "above", otherwise nothing would happen. I then said that if they didn't take the products out of the range immediately, I would call the police, which I did. The Migros employees also sent two people from the Migros-Aare security service to come and ban me from all Migros-Aare stores for five years, as I had apparently frightened the Migros staff by saying that I would call the police straight away. The matter is now pending with the cantonal chemist and I am confident that the products that do not have a license will have to be removed from the range in the next few days. The fight is not over yet, but some progress has already been made. The next step will be for ALL plant protection products classified as hazardous to bees to be removed from the range, as Migros is still claiming that it no longer sells such products... WE WILL STAY TUNED.
Guest
9 years ago
The website http://generation-m.migros.ch/generation-m/de/nachhaltig-leben/tiere-pflanzen/bienen.html states: "Do not use pesticides. Biological protection products (e.g. from Migros Bio Garden) protect plants without endangering bees."
Can the above statement from Migros be true if even this one from "Migros Bio Garden" is classified as "dangerous to bees": http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=216
Guest
9 years ago
Product harmful to bees sold without authorization:
http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=1739
Bee-hazardous product with authorization, but against the promise:
http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=751
Other products on sale without authorization:
http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=53
http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=2133
http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=1628
Glyphosate from MIgros:
http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=36
http://www.blw.admin.ch/psm/produkte/index.html?lang=de&item=1722
Does Migros intend to withdraw the products from sale without authorization? Should actually happen almost overnight - shouldn't it?
9 years ago
@Migroleum I don't think such actions do any good. They do more harm. I would therefore like to distance myself from such actions. This forum is not intended to incite or even call for such actions.
It is sufficient to "fight" objectively and calmly with words and arguments. In this sense, I don't find myself addressed with "we".
You could have simply informed the cantonal chemist by letter, e-mail or phone call if you suspected that Migros had products in its range that had lost their approval.
Migros has never claimed that all plant protection products classified as hazardous to bees have been removed from its range. Migros refers to the Greenpeace study "Bye bye bee?" from 2013 and has so far only removed the substances listed there from its product range.
However, until now, Migros has always advertised with the Generation-M promise: "We promise Noah that from the end of 2014 we will only offer insecticides and pesticides that do not endanger bees."
The Fair Trading Commission said, and I quote:
"The average addressee may expect from the communication that no more 'bee-damaging' or 'bee-hazardous' ingredients are used. He does not have to deal with technical details, legal requirements and studies of NG0s in order to be able to judge the truth of an advertising claim. It is also irrelevant which application poses a risk to bees. The fact that the respondent's insect and plant protection products in 2016 contain substances that are harmful to bees makes the statement that is the subject of the complaint an unfair statement."
Guest
9 years ago
@Loxiran I informed the cantonal chemist and then I went into a store, took a banned bottle off the shelf and explained to the information desk that this product no longer had a license and could therefore no longer be sold. But you're right, just reporting it to the cantonal chemist would have been enough. And I now understand a bit better how the hierarchy at Migros works and how you should approach things without getting yourself banned from the premises and "bothering" the employees. But I also learned that it's almost impossible to discuss things with the FMC. The request was not listened to at all. So one thing led to another...
Guest
9 years ago
Great action Migroleum!
Daniel said on Thursday on this topic ->
>>> Of course Migros only sells pesticides approved in Switzerland. <<<
Apparently not.
I wouldn't worry about the ban. It's not meant seriously anyway if it applies to the whole cooperative. But I'd be curious to know the reason for it, because it's not you but Migros that has done something wrong. If you were at fault, then it would be for a branch, where it might still be barely controllable. Or did you get an electronic anklet that triggers an alarm when you enter a Migros?
How do you actually find out whether a product has a license or not?
Question for the moderator ->
Why is someone banned from the store in such a case? It's a primitive reaction when Migros has obviously done something illegal and not the customer.
Guest
9 years ago
No, stupid action. Of course Migros is not allowed to sell pesticides whose approval has expired. So informing the authorities or pointing out the problem to the store management in a friendly manner is OK. But not even a week after the sales deadline (July 31, 2016) has expired, making such a fuss in a Migros, threatening the police, etc.? You shouldn't be surprised to be banned from the premises, even if it will be difficult to enforce.
And once again: shift down a few gears. Don't panic.
The pesticides were previously approved for a few years. A few more days are not acutely dangerous. Of course, there could be legal repercussions for Migros if products really were sold without authorization. For this reason alone, it would be better to leave it to the authorities, who can also document the violation in a court of law. By taking such action, you may be destroying the evidence.
Guest
9 years ago
"Enough is not enough, I will not be lied to. Even silence is deceit, enough can never be enough. I've been sitting around far too long, the light is already steaming over the floor."https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP1Zj6SqN_Y
"Something has to happen now, because otherwise something inside me will break. This tingle on my tongue, even the drain water tastes like wine. I give my mouth another quick lick and then dive into the melee. Come on, we'll break out tomorrow, and then we'll stand against the wind. Only the gods will perish when we are finally godless. In the front ranks, we praise morality as always, eager to serve. But my ego is sacred to me and I don't care about their welfare."