I fully accept the people who eat a vegan diet. But in my opinion, the real vegan diet is not really happening. Because the current vegans want cheese, yoghurt, quark, raclette fondue, milk, but it can't be made from real milk. They want meat, sausage, cold cuts, burgers, minced meat, sliced meat, but it can't be real meat, but it should taste like it. Will there soon be an egg that can't be an egg but is supposed to taste like one? Or the fish that can't be fish but is supposed to taste like it? In addition, the same name is still being demanded, which is actually not appropriate at all. For me, vegans are people who consciously or with conviction eat a vegan diet with pulses, soya products, nuts, seeds, all the plant-based sources of protein, and not with artificially produced foods, which should also taste like the real thing. Many people will not like my contribution. But perhaps it will give you a little impetus to really get to grips with vegan nutrition......
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Guest
What can a steak be? The veggie market is booming. The meat industry doesn't really have a problem with this. But they don't care what the meat-free products are called. Is a "vegan steak" legal? Vegan seitan wings, Quorn mince or vegan Wiener schnitzel. Sales of plant-based substitute products are experiencing positive growth. And this trend does not seem to be slowing down. The Swiss retail trade wants to further expand its range. Migros launched its "V-Love" brand for plant-based foods in July 2020. Competitor Coop has achieved a meat-free breakthrough with its "Karma" brand, but when it comes to naming the popular plant-based meat alternatives, there is still a lack of clarity. Can you still call a vegan product steak? Complying with the ban on deception In Switzerland, the Federal Law on Foodstuffs and Utility Articles (LMG) regulates, among other things, the protection of consumers from deception. In particular, Article 18 states that the presentation, labeling and packaging of foodstuffs must not be deceptive. Misleading labeling is deemed to be deceptive if it creates false ideas about the product. The following article requires clear labelling of imitations and surrogates, which must indicate the true nature of the food. In the case of the vegan schnitzel mentioned at the beginning, the legal situation is not yet clear. The Federal Food Safety and Veterinary Office (FSVO) is remedying this situation to a certain extent. In July 2020, it published the information letter "Vegan and vegetarian alternatives to foods of animal origin". This sets out criteria for the assessment of designations in order to ensure the uniform application of food law. "Soy schnitzel" is permitted For example, it may not be called "vegan mayonnaise", as "mayonnaise" must consist of egg in accordance with the regulations. On the other hand, the term "vegan alternative to mayonnaise" is permitted, as this is descriptive and provides information about the use of the product. However, in order not to be deceptive, the imitated product must be clearly differentiated from the original - in the name, presentation and advertising. Classic names that do not refer to a specific animal species but are traditionally used for animal products such as fillet, steak, schnitzel, chopsticks, sliced meat, hamburger or sausage are generally permitted for vegan or vegetarian alternatives. However, the plant-based origin must be clearly recognizable. And: The naming of an animal species is not permitted if the product contains no meat (e.g. vegan beef fillet). In addition, no protected designations (AOP/IGP) may be used (such as Bündnerfleisch) or designations protected by international treaties (such as feta). Ruedi Hadorn, Director of the Swiss Meat Association, notes that the much-vaunted innovation of vegan alternative products already ends with their designation. "The manufacturers of meat alternatives want their products to stand out from meat products. So why are they copying their names? That's a contradiction in terms," concludes Hadorn. The industry-specific names have been established over the years and this must be respected. "There are clear legal requirements for animal-based foods. So why can vegetarian and vegan products use similar, if not the same, terms and not have to comply with these regulations?" "A form, not the content" For the Vegan Society of Switzerland, the veggie schnitzel is not a problem. "A burger or a sausage defines a form, not the content. With a 'vegan' or 'plant-based burger' on the veggie shelf, consumers generally know what they can use this product for and that it doesn't contain any animals," says Managing Director Laura Lombardini. Nevertheless, the FSVO's regulations are causing confusion for the Vegan Society of Switzerland. "The information letter didn't clarify much, but rather raised more questions. Our discussions with producers have also shown this," says Lombardini. "The comparison 'like tuna' must not appear on the product - although this would help consumers to find their way around. However, product names and information should serve precisely this purpose." The Vegan Society therefore hopes that the FSVO will once again focus more on this in new regulations. "In view of the global impact of animal products, this should be an absolute priority - contrary to the efforts of the animal industry to maintain its outdated special position," says Lombardini. FSVO leaves room for interpretation "In practice, the information letter has proven to be very useful," says FSVO media spokeswoman Claire Bussy Pestalozzi. "We regularly receive inquiries from the enforcement authorities and various companies on this topic." The information letter serves as an assessment basis and interpretation aid for enforcement authorities and the food industry in Switzerland in order to improve the uniform labeling of such products. "However, a case-by-case assessment is always necessary in order to take all aspects into account," continues Pestalozzi. It is therefore up to the inspection authorities to carry out an overall assessment of the product and take the measures they deem necessary. Compared to Switzerland, the EU vegan industry is put through the meat grinder somewhat more rigorously. If it were up to a broad alliance of European animal breeding and meat processing organizations, the "veggie schnitzel" would have to be banned. The German Farmers' Association is also annoyed by the animal-like names for meat-free substitute products. General Secretary Bernhard Krüsken even described them as a "strange form of free-riding". The original is first brought into disrepute and then the name is copied in order to engage in unfair advertising, said Krüsken. Despite pressure from the meat industry and the "Ceci n'est pas un steak" campaign launched by agricultural organizations, the EU Parliament voted against new labelling protection for meat products in October 2020. Prior to the vote, the campaign had called for more transparency and fairness with regard to meat alternatives with meat labels. In terms of nutritional value, imitations are not at all the same as the original meat product whose name they copy; however, the copied name falsely suggests equality. The campaign also appealed for more appreciation and respect for the work of the animal breeding sector. Nevertheless, the EU Parliament was skeptical about the draft law. The "seitan sausage" can therefore remain in the EU. Stricter regulations for dairy product alternatives Meanwhile, the EU Parliament voted in favour of stricter regulations for the labelling of milk and dairy product alternatives. The terms "milk", "cheese" or "yoghurt" have not been permitted for vegan products since 2017 (not even in Switzerland), as milk must come from the udder. They are now also no longer permitted in combination with descriptive terms such as "à la", "type", "kind" or similar. The European Vegetarian Union is disappointed about this. "How can consumers who are interested in plant-based alternatives differentiate between an alternative for yoghurt, pudding or quark if these very terms are not acceptable?" asks Ronja Berthold, Head of Public Affairs at the Vegetarian Union. This extended restrictive legislation undermines consumer protection and transparency. This article was published by the Landwirtschaftlicher Informationsdienst (LID). "The manufacturers of meat alternatives want their products to stand out from meat products. So why are they copying their names?" Ruedi Hadorn Director of the Meat Trade Association Incomprehension: The Swiss Meat Trade Association cannot understand why common names of meat products are being used for vegan food Article is from today's Bündnder Zeitung
Guest
You just have a black and white mindset. Many people simply don't want animals to suffer, period.
I also think that the personal motives for veganism/vegetarianism should not be pilloried. Rather, we should strive to set a good example... the whole industry surrounding meat substitutes also has something good about it: people are dealing with the topic and the products can be useful, at least for the transition. For many people, these products trigger something and make them think. Hopefully, this will lead to a conscious, sustainable diet. However, an accurate declaration is really essential for this. Kind regards
Guest
Vegan out of conviction should be the only true way and not because you want to follow a "trend". My girlfriend has been vegan for over a year now. Unfortunately, she now has to eat fish and meat once a week because her body doesn't want to follow a completely vegan diet. I think that's a shame for her
dear indios↵ i think i understand your concerns and am now trying to give my opinion as "objectively" as possible.↵ a vegetarian/vegan person is often attacked, lectured and made to feel insecure. meat substitutes are very helpful, especially for neo-vegans/vegetarians. there is no need to change your diet. instead of a schnitzel or a sausage made from animal, you simply buy the vegan/vegetarian version and that's it. to avoid the much-publicized protein deficiency, you can take a look at the nutritional values when you buy the product. nowadays, it is very easy for anyone to go vegetarian/vegan from one day to the next without any additional effort. the social aspect can also take place as usual. a veg sausage is easier to keep over the campfire than a slice of tofu. a sandwich is something very patented for hiking with a backpack. i personally like veg products because of the protein content and the quick preparation. others like to eat meat, but want to contribute to reducing animal suffering. tastes change over the years and so does the desire for animal products. we have been taught to eat meat for years or even decades. for some people, these veg products are a kind of substitute "drug", which makes it easier to give up. and it's important to remember that some people want to replace meat in terms of consistency and taste, while others want to replace the nutritional value. ↵for decades, as a vegetarian, i've had to listen to people say that everything vegan doesn't taste good and now it seems to be tasting more and more similar/better and some people are getting upset about it again 🤪↵ i've also accidentally got hold of the cans of lentils with bacon. i then gave them away...dear vegans and non-vegans, let's stay/be friends.
What can a steak be? The veggie market is booming. The meat industry doesn't really have a problem with this. But they don't care what the meat-free products are called. Is a "vegan steak" legal? Vegan seitan wings, Quorn mince or vegan Wiener schnitzel. Sales of plant-based substitute products are experiencing positive growth. And this trend does not seem to be slowing down. The Swiss retail trade wants to further expand its range. Migros launched its "V-Love" brand for plant-based foods in July 2020. Competitor Coop has achieved a meat-free breakthrough with its "Karma" brand, but when it comes to naming the popular plant-based meat alternatives, there is still a lack of clarity. Can you still call a vegan product steak? Complying with the ban on deception In Switzerland, the Federal Law on Foodstuffs and Utility Articles (LMG) regulates, among other things, the protection of consumers from deception. In particular, Article 18 states that the presentation, labeling and packaging of foodstuffs must not be deceptive. Misleading labeling is deemed to be deceptive if it creates false ideas about the product. The following article requires clear labelling of imitations and surrogates, which must indicate the true nature of the food. In the case of the vegan schnitzel mentioned at the beginning, the legal situation is not yet clear. The Federal Food Safety and Veterinary Office (FSVO) is remedying this situation to a certain extent. In July 2020, it published the information letter "Vegan and vegetarian alternatives to foods of animal origin". This sets out criteria for the assessment of designations in order to ensure the uniform application of food law. "Soy schnitzel" is permitted For example, it may not be called "vegan mayonnaise", as "mayonnaise" must consist of egg in accordance with the regulations. On the other hand, the term "vegan alternative to mayonnaise" is permitted, as this is descriptive and provides information about the use of the product. However, in order not to be deceptive, the imitated product must be clearly differentiated from the original - in the name, presentation and advertising. Classic names that do not refer to a specific animal species but are traditionally used for animal products such as fillet, steak, schnitzel, chopsticks, sliced meat, hamburger or sausage are generally permitted for vegan or vegetarian alternatives. However, the plant-based origin must be clearly recognizable. And: The naming of an animal species is not permitted if the product contains no meat (e.g. vegan beef fillet). In addition, no protected designations (AOP/IGP) may be used (such as Bündnerfleisch) or designations protected by international treaties (such as feta). Ruedi Hadorn, Director of the Swiss Meat Association, notes that the much-vaunted innovation of vegan alternative products already ends with their designation. "The manufacturers of meat alternatives want their products to stand out from meat products. So why are they copying their names? That's a contradiction in terms," concludes Hadorn. The industry-specific names have been established over the years and this must be respected. "There are clear legal requirements for animal-based foods. So why can vegetarian and vegan products use similar, if not the same, terms and not have to comply with these regulations?" "A form, not the content" For the Vegan Society of Switzerland, the veggie schnitzel is not a problem. "A burger or a sausage defines a form, not the content. With a 'vegan' or 'plant-based burger' on the veggie shelf, consumers generally know what they can use this product for and that it doesn't contain any animals," says Managing Director Laura Lombardini. Nevertheless, the FSVO's regulations are causing confusion for the Vegan Society of Switzerland. "The information letter didn't clarify much, but rather raised more questions. Our discussions with producers have also shown this," says Lombardini. "The comparison 'like tuna' must not appear on the product - although this would help consumers to find their way around. However, product names and information should serve precisely this purpose." The Vegan Society therefore hopes that the FSVO will once again focus more on this in new regulations. "In view of the global impact of animal products, this should be an absolute priority - contrary to the efforts of the animal industry to maintain its outdated special position," says Lombardini. FSVO leaves room for interpretation "In practice, the information letter has proven to be very useful," says FSVO media spokeswoman Claire Bussy Pestalozzi. "We regularly receive inquiries from the enforcement authorities and various companies on this topic." The information letter serves as an assessment basis and interpretation aid for enforcement authorities and the food industry in Switzerland in order to improve the uniform labeling of such products. "However, a case-by-case assessment is always necessary in order to take all aspects into account," continues Pestalozzi. It is therefore up to the inspection authorities to carry out an overall assessment of the product and take the measures they deem necessary. Compared to Switzerland, the EU vegan industry is put through the meat grinder somewhat more rigorously. If it were up to a broad alliance of European animal breeding and meat processing organizations, the "veggie schnitzel" would have to be banned. The German Farmers' Association is also annoyed by the animal-like names for meat-free substitute products. General Secretary Bernhard Krüsken even described them as a "strange form of free-riding". The original is first brought into disrepute and then the name is copied in order to engage in unfair advertising, said Krüsken. Despite pressure from the meat industry and the "Ceci n'est pas un steak" campaign launched by agricultural organizations, the EU Parliament voted against new labelling protection for meat products in October 2020. Prior to the vote, the campaign had called for more transparency and fairness with regard to meat alternatives with meat labels. In terms of nutritional value, imitations are not at all the same as the original meat product whose name they copy; however, the copied name falsely suggests equality. The campaign also appealed for more appreciation and respect for the work of the animal breeding sector. Nevertheless, the EU Parliament was skeptical about the draft law. The "seitan sausage" can therefore remain in the EU. Stricter regulations for dairy product alternatives Meanwhile, the EU Parliament voted in favour of stricter regulations for the labelling of milk and dairy product alternatives. The terms "milk", "cheese" or "yoghurt" have not been permitted for vegan products since 2017 (not even in Switzerland), as milk must come from the udder. They are now also no longer permitted in combination with descriptive terms such as "à la", "type", "kind" or similar. The European Vegetarian Union is disappointed about this. "How can consumers who are interested in plant-based alternatives differentiate between an alternative for yoghurt, pudding or quark if these very terms are not acceptable?" asks Ronja Berthold, Head of Public Affairs at the Vegetarian Union. This extended restrictive legislation undermines consumer protection and transparency. This article was published by the Landwirtschaftlicher Informationsdienst (LID). "The manufacturers of meat alternatives want their products to stand out from meat products. So why are they copying their names?" Ruedi Hadorn Director of the Meat Trade Association Incomprehension: The Swiss Meat Trade Association cannot understand why common names of meat products are being used for vegan food Article is from today's Bündnder Zeitung
dear rollimaus good for me to know: a) if milk has to come from an udder, then i no longer have breasts, but an udder. after all, i breastfed two children and thought i was producing breast milk. question: whose udder does coconut milk, sun milk, dandelion milk etc. come from and how often has this been confused...? b) how long can expressions such as fruit pulp and seafood still be used?
by the way, i personally prefer the term "drink". but why is lactose-free milk still allowed to be called milk when one of its three main characteristics has been removed? it is much easier to confuse. c) what harm can be expected if someone accidentally eats a vegan "schnitzel" instead of a breaded pork "schnitzel"?
Vegan out of conviction should be the only true way and not because you want to follow a "trend". My girlfriend has been vegan for over a year now. Unfortunately, she now has to eat fish and meat once a week because her body doesn't want to follow a completely vegan diet. I think that's a shame for her
dear tinkerbee, a trend can also be a good guide to the "true path of conviction". i find it extremely strange that someone has to eat fish and meat once a week. who came up with this theory?
Guest
It's not just a trend. I mean, yes, maybe some people go vegan because it's a nice thing to say about themselves. But veganism isn't just a normal diet. It's a lifestyle, we all want to have substitutes for cheese, meat and other products. But the point is that there is no reason to kill animals to make these vegan substitutes. That's what vegans are fighting for. Yes, things like vegan meat, burgers or other things are a kind of fast food and not exactly healthy, but they are still good to have. I know that many people can't or don't want to give up these products, but is the taste really worth the life of an animal?
I am absolutely in favor of studying diets, ingredients, processing and the origin of products. Here's my tip on plant-based nutrition for EVERYONE who really wants to look at the advantages and disadvantages objectively: https://www.nikorittenau.com/ But "not doing this" also applies to the vast majority of our dear Karnists ;-) If I may use a cliché (to which I used to belong), they don't really deal with nutritional science and ingredients, production and origin, because there are so many things that you just do without questioning them and you don't want to know everything so well anyway (ignorance is bliss...). Wikipedia > Karnism. I'll turn the tables now (and most people don't like that either, sorry about that). I could say: "Someone is not a "real" meat eater if they can't manage to shoot the defenceless cow and the frightened baby cow themselves, see all the sounds of death in the slaughterhouse and then the masses of corpses, cut them up, gut them, let alone even think about eating with the smell of blood in their nose..." I could go on with many more things like this, but I won't... So I'd rather be a semi-"non-real" vegan (because I don't categorically reject substitute products and like to try out new creations) than a non-real meat eater (which I used to be, but at some point this was no longer compatible with my increasing knowledge.) I think: Let's stop categorizing, that's not what's really important. What is important is that EVERYONE asks themselves honest questions about all diets etc. and tries to improve, to go through a process (which is not easy) - towards more awareness and compassion for the environment, animal welfare and health. The food industry is always producing new things, that is also its job and I think it is creative to try to experiment and help people in their process to get away from animal products and try to offer something like a "substitute drug". The fact that not everything is healthy and perfect should be clear to everyone who is involved in this... and in my opinion, there are many more people in the vegan faction than among omnivores. As far as the label is concerned, I also think it's good if it's clear what it really is - that's why I'm also a fan of uniform and clearly visible labels (unfortunately, vegetarian and vegan labels are too similar, which is bad). Since there is and always has been a lot of confusion in the language (meatloaf, marzipan sausage, coconut milk, etc.), I always take things with a bit of humor. I find things like the label/name "Ich bin kein Fleischkäse" (I'm not a meatloaf) on the "meatloaf substitute product" from Soyana (unfortunately not available in Migros), for example, just cool and funny.
Guest
I don't need to know the reasons why someone eats a vegan diet. I'm interested in something else. A vegan diet is a way of life and a change in diet. If you follow a vegan diet correctly and with conviction, you consciously avoid certain foods and their taste. You accept and know that, for example, there is no fondue, raclette, meat, etc. and no taste for them. You opt for conventional foods such as pulses, nuts, vegetables, fruit, cereals, etc. and you also opt for their taste. - And they also opt for their taste. These vegans enjoy cooking with these foods themselves and creating their own recipes, but if they want to continue living in their comfort zone, not giving up anything, leaving everything as it was, retaining all the flavours, but - it simply must not be animal-based - they are not vegans. They are lazy people who want a five and a half and demand products that taste exactly the same, no matter what artificial additives are used. That's why true and convinced vegans don't need such products. Their conscious vegan attitude to life and change of diet, even the renunciation, gives them pleasure.
Hi indios So that's your opinion, okay - but not anymore. I stopped eating meat over 20 years ago and have been 99% vegan for a good 5 years now. Healthy eating is important to me, but my main concern is that no living creature has to die because of me and I don't want to exploit animals. Nevertheless, I want to eat delicious food, not always cook everything myself / make everything myself... I don't always have time for it either. As I said, I haven't eaten meat for 20 years, I can't remember what it tastes like. When I buy vegan convenience, I just want it to taste delicious (no matter how) but delicious. Hey, meatless sausages have always been around :) I wouldn't mind if it wasn't called sausage. The motivation behind giving up meat is completely individual and to each his own. Something else entirely. It often happens when I tell someone that I don't eat animal products... my counterpart then says "I don't eat much meat". This is an indirect excuse / justification. I then ask why they say that. The AW; "I don't want you to think I don't care / am a bad person / etc along those lines. Yes, but I don't ask anyone who eats meat to justify it and why should I judge anyone? It doesn't do me any good. But I am happy to discuss it :) I'm glad that we're here today and can discuss forms of nutrition, because as I've already written, I've been living this way since the last century and when I said I didn't eat meat, I was usually told "you're mentally ill".
Guest
Hi indios So that's your opinion, okay - but not anymore. I stopped eating meat over 20 years ago and have been 99% vegan for a good 5 years now. Healthy eating is important to me, but my main concern is that no living creature has to die because of me and I don't want to exploit animals. Nevertheless, I want to eat delicious food, not always cook everything myself / make everything myself... I don't always have time for it either. As I said, I haven't eaten meat for 20 years, I can't remember what it tastes like. When I buy vegan convenience, I just want it to taste delicious (no matter how) but delicious. Hey, meatless sausages have always been around :) I wouldn't mind if it wasn't called sausage. The motivation behind giving up meat is completely individual and to each his own. Something else entirely. It often happens when I tell someone that I don't eat animal products... my counterpart then says "I don't eat much meat". This is an indirect excuse / justification. I then ask why they say that. The AW; "I don't want you to think I don't care / am a bad person / etc along those lines. Yes, but I don't ask anyone who eats meat to justify it and why should I judge anyone? It doesn't do me any good. But I am happy to discuss it :) I'm glad that we're here today and can discuss forms of nutrition, because as I've already written, I've been living this way since the last century and when I said I didn't eat meat, I was usually told "you're mentally ill".
This is your/your decision to feed yourself/yourselves like this (hope all those who do it don't force babies, toddlers, kindergarten/school children and teenagers to do so) 😒 😔 😟 to that, I think not only @Indios was concerned that your diet has the pseudo names wrongly because what do your "Wienerli, chicken nuggets, minced meat" have to do with the real thing, absolutely nothing. So now have fun with your "hypocritical political correctness" oh and for me a "Mohrakopf is something to eat from chocolate, egg white and anara Waffla" 😉