Means of payment: Bitcoin for Migros Subito

Bartibus · 2015-04-20T11:00:10.000Z

Hello Migros Why not be one of the pioneers and start a test run with Bitcoin? Your "Subito" infrastructure is literally crying out to accept bitcoins. You have decided to operate these stations cashless, which I think is OK. Why not add a Bitcoin option alongside the card payment option? A QR code appears on the screen, which I scan with my Bitcoin wallet on my cell phone and I'm paid. What would be wrong with a pilot project in the branch at Zurich International Airport, for example? I would be delighted Greetings Luke

Guest

10 years ago

Hello Bartibus

Oh wow, I actually haven't read that request here before (or I can't remember). I can pass on the wish and ask what the plans are in this regard.

Best regards
Tanja

(Machine translation)

Guest

9 years ago

I also find the idea very interesting. But I do see one problem: how many blocks/confirmations should Migros wait for in order to consider a payment as confirmed? For somewhat larger amounts (everything that goes beyond micropayments), it should be at least one, preferably two or three blocks that confirm the transaction. Otherwise you risk double-spending and the transaction being rejected by the network.
The problem, however, is the time between the blocks. This follows a Poisson distribution and averages 10 minutes (the difficulty of finding blocks is automatically adjusted by the network to ensure this). Waiting for one or more blocks at the checkout is therefore somewhat tedious.

You could possibly do this with the Subito system, because you still have the Cumulus number in case of doubt if a transaction fails. However, the number is not really secret, it is written on every receipt (and you can easily generate the appropriate barcode for scanning yourself if you have the number) ...

Of course, you could also say that the customer could simply walk out of the store without paying, which would be easier than forging an unconfirmed Bitcoin transaction. That's true, of course. But without confirmations, the risk of default is at least something you have to take into account.

(Machine translation)

Guest

9 years ago

Hello everyone

We try to offer our customers as many payment options as possible. However, the introduction of a Bitcoin payment option is not currently planned.

One of the reasons has already beenmentioned by @n_vogel:Payment with Bitcoin is not very spontaneous. The waiting time for confirmation (transmission of the so-called blocks) is relatively long. Examples actually indicate a waiting time of up to 10 minutes. The customer would also have to wait this time on site, as we would not be able to release the purchase without this confirmation. This would lead to delays at the checkouts and would be very inconvenient for customers.

In addition, the Bitcoin currency is subject to strong price fluctuations. Bitcoin is therefore not an option for us at the moment. However, we are of course keeping an eye on the development of the currency.

As an alternative to debit and credit cards, we offer payment at subito stations via the M-App or using Migros gift cards (cash cards).

Kind regards
Tanja

(Machine translation)

Guest

8 years ago

Dear Mr. Vogel
I already had a double-spend myself.
Nevertheless, nothing was missing after 2 days.
In addition, no one can produce such a double-spend with a wallet installed in the Migros app, as Migros itself would certainly be without waiting for just one confirmation.
I suspect that your scripters simply said it wasn't worth it with bitcoins even though they had the technical requirements.
With a bit of skill, you could even create a mining pool from it, but I'm probably a few years too early for that

(Machine translation)

Guest

8 years ago

At Lieferservice.ch, the invoice is also possible without confirmation (even for unconfirmed receipts) from blockchain, so that really can't be the problem

(Machine translation)

Guest

8 years ago

Never, ever lose a payment without fees. Blockchain is lame yes but more secure than Postfinance etc

(Machine translation)

Guest

8 years ago

Edited

> I myself already had a double-spend, but after 2 days nothing was missing.
Then you were lucky that the blockchain decided that the payment to you was the 'right' one and that the other payment of the double-spend should be canceled, so the double-spend attack failed.

> Furthermore, no one with a wallet installed in the Migros app can produce such a double-spend
> because Migros itself would certainly be without waiting for confirmation.
Whether the wallet is integrated in the Migros app or not is irrelevant for security, because an attacker does not have to use the app. He can also simply pretend to use it (i.e. find out exactly what the app does and then access the corresponding APIs directly).
What you could do, of course, would be a wallet for which Migros has the private key, i.e. a kind of 'prepaid system'. Each purchase would then be debited from it. However, the coins are then no longer under the user's control.

> At Lieferservice.ch, the invoice is also valid without confirmation (even for unconfirmed
> receipts) from the blockchain, so that really can't be the problemlieferservice.ch uses BitPay, and as far as I know BitPay also requires at least one confirmation from the blockchain on the highest risk setting (set by the merchant).

(Machine translation)

zfride

2 years ago

Guest

9 years ago

Hello everyone

We try to offer our customers as many payment options as possible. However, the introduction of a Bitcoin payment option is not currently planned.

One of the reasons has already beenmentioned by @n_vogel:Payment with Bitcoin is not very spontaneous. The waiting time for confirmation (transmission of the so-called blocks) is relatively long. Examples actually indicate a waiting time of up to 10 minutes. The customer would also have to wait this time on site, as we would not be able to release the purchase without this confirmation. This would lead to delays at the checkouts and would be very inconvenient for customers.

In addition, the Bitcoin currency is subject to strong price fluctuations. Bitcoin is therefore not an option for us at the moment. However, we are of course keeping an eye on the development of the currency.

As an alternative to debit and credit cards, we offer payment at subito stations via the M-App or using Migros gift cards (cash cards).

Kind regards
Tanja

(Machine translation)

Hello, I would like to take up this topic again. A lot of time has passed and a lot has happened. Bitcoin Lightning invalidates all the counter-arguments mentioned here. Is Migros already working on a Lightning integration? Kind regards

(Machine translation)

NKägi

2 years ago

zfride

2 years ago

Hello, I would like to take up this topic again. A lot of time has passed and a lot has happened. Bitcoin Lightning invalidates all the counter-arguments mentioned here. Is Migros already working on a Lightning integration? Kind regards

(Machine translation)

Yes, I am absolutely on the side of @zfride. Would also like to know when you can pay at Migros etc. Can you pay with Bitcoin Lightning? A lot of time has passed and Bitcoin has become bigger.

(Machine translation)

M-Infoline

2 years ago

zfride

2 years ago

Hello, I would like to take up this topic again. A lot of time has passed and a lot has happened. Bitcoin Lightning invalidates all the counter-arguments mentioned here. Is Migros already working on a Lightning integration? Kind regards

(Machine translation)

Hello zfride, thank you for your question. After checking with the relevant specialist department, the situation is still unchanged. Accepting cryptocurrencies is currently not an issue for Migros. Bitcoin Lightning also still has too many risks and problems. Kind regards, Matteo

(Machine translation)

Zahlungsmittel: Bitcoin für Migros Subito

All replies (24)

All replies (24)